Posts by Cold Steel

38

Don't Allow Common "John and Jane Doe" (spiritually dead) to Corporate Broadcast! Keep us Clean!

by AuntConnie in

life's not so great, i've been sulking after it was annouced, the annual meeting of directors is allowing everyone to view the event!

here comes the congregational corpes "john and jane does" to a meeting they should not be allowed to attend!

jehovah's witnesses enjoy their royalty just like americans do.

Cold Steel

Don't worry about quality meals for the leaders. Is not the hireling deserving of his wages? I've only heard rumors, but the Bethel leadership is going to implement an editorial policy due to the fact that some of Jehovah's Witnesses are confused about whether some of the inconsistent doctrine that appears from time to time in the Society's publications are speculation or "new light" being received and revealed by the Governing Body. The revised editorial policy stipulates that all references to the GB will be printed with capital letters at the beginning of pertinent words and that the Governing Body will henceforth be referred to as authorities, similar to the apostles and prophets of holy writ.

One of Their new pronouncements is that while They receive New Light from Heaven, This is not to be considered to be new canon or binding scripture, nor is the New Light to be considered revelation in the sense that ancient men of Jehovah received it, such as by angels, visions, such as received by John on Patmos and Stephen whilst he was being stoned, nor actual light such as that experienced by Paul. In short, Members of the Governing Board receive "impressions" from the Holy Active Force of God, then it will be dispersed by Them through the Watchtower and Awake! magazines.

Also, Bethel has announced that when attending conferences or visiting Kingdom Halls, no one except elders and overseers should approach Them or speak to Them unless specifically addressed by the individual Member. And if you're notified that you will be introduced to the Member, members of all ranks should wash their hands first with antibacterial soap. If you are sick or running a temperature, you should not shake hands, but bend swiftly at the waist with your arms held against your legs. When shaking hands, members should wait until the Body Member offers you His Hand. And finally, in keeping with the modesty of the GB, it will not be inappropriate to refer to them as, "Your Glory." This reference is, for now, a reference to Jehovah's Glory, which is manifest through his Servants, the Holy Ones of Israel.

Finally members and investigators should not attempt to write or contact GB Members or attempt to use Them as a means of reversing disciplinary actions at lower levels of the food chain, a term that is INAPPROPRIATE and DISRESPECTFUL to describe Jehovah's anointed chain of command.

Please stay tuned for new policies, clarifications and, oh yeah...light.

Ancient GB member.

12

What Does It Take to Be Disfellowshiped For Apostasy?

by Cold Steel in

if one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped?

does attitude have anything to do with it?

or persistance?

Cold Steel

Are you guys saying that when you have legitimate questions, that these discussions culminate in a loyalty question, or questions?

I'm amazed that these loyalty questions so quickly and universally center on the top hierarchal structure of the Society. The important parts of this religion is that in the late 19th Century, a group of Bible students decided that the restoration of biblical Christianity rested on a dedicated study of the Bible, with no outside materials to cause predilections in interpretation. It was only after the students came up with their core doctrines that they began publishing opinions and establishing a self-appointed leadership and man-made religion. In other words, there was no heavenly sign of approval, no angels heralding the restoration of the gospel, no visions, no revelations.

In short, the leadership having total authority in the Society is one of the key components to the belief structure, and if you don't buy into it, you're out. If you tell the elders that you accept the GB as chosen by God and, together, having the status of a modern prophet, how can you help but believe ALL the doctrines? If you question soul sleeping or the Society's bizarre view of Armageddon, all the elders need to do is refer you back to the GB!

12

What Does It Take to Be Disfellowshiped For Apostasy?

by Cold Steel in

if one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped?

does attitude have anything to do with it?

or persistance?

Cold Steel

Farkel: Brooklyn must just love me because they cannot touch me!

Actually, I just got off the phone with them. They said they know who you are, where you are, and that you're out. Oh, yeah, and they said to make sure the door doesn't hit you in the ass on the way out!

Nice try.

13

Could remembering what kept us captive in the WBTS prison help us spring our loved ones?

by Fernando in

is it essentially unscriptural fear of death and fear of the big a that keeps wbts/gb followers captive, passive, unthinking, unquestioning and blind?.

is it the unscriptural promises of organisational salvation and baptismal salvation and works salvation that keeps wbts/gb followers on a treadmill to nowhere?.

Cold Steel

In other words you think it's the threats...the threat of everlasting death, the threat of being cut off from one's family and friends, of incurring Jehovah's wrath and its consequences. Perhaps. Perhaps, too, some wives don't want to lose their husbands or vice versa, or their kids. And their dogs and cats.

It's true that all the above keeps some members active, but there are also people who use the Society to gain friends and prestige. Some like to live secure in the notion that they're of the anointed class, or that they're elders, or overseers, or even that they're known for their staunch defense of Jehovah-God and his earthly kingdom, and that everyone looks up to them for their encyclopedic knowledge of the Society and its doctrines. Perhaps they have every single publication ever to roll off the Brooklyn presses and they know people stand in awe of brother Knowital.

And others...just because they have nowhere else to go. Maybe they lean on the local congregation and its leaders for financial support, or that they are secure in the knowledge that people will always be there to visit them in their old age.

And finally, some people actually believe in it. They have looked at every doctrine and asked themselves, what other church has all the correct doctrines? Perhaps no angel from heaven has come down to call their leaders and give them authority from above...that doesn't matter. Using the process of elimination, they've determined that the Society is the only organization on Earth that teaches "the truth that leads to eternal life." They have a ticket to either Heaven or a glorified Earth and unless someone snatches it from them (i.e., disfellowships them), they will be left standing while fire falls from the sky and consumes EBT (everyone but them). Far be it from them to stumble this close to...well, you know. (It's just around the corner.)

There are, unfortunately, some "Christians" who believe that if people remain JWs, that they will lose any chance of everlasting life and be thrust down to an eternal Hell. I'm a Mormon and have been damned and denounced more times than I can count, and before that I was a non-denominational Christian. But I never believed that the Christian God would condemn anyone to an eternal Hell for their heartfelt beliefs. Nor for anything else, no matter how heinous. A person can go to Hell for any one of a number of reasons, but I believe that it's remedial in nature and does not last forever. The WTBTS condemns all non-JWs to eternal destruction, and thus use fear as a tool to keep people in line. So other secular Christians also use fear, just in other ways. Any sane person would be terrified at the thought of burning forever in a furnace of everlasting fire, ever burning but never consumed.

So yes, fear works!

16

Interesting Observation by a Coworker

by breakfast of champions in

over the past couple years, i've confided my whole "apostate experience" to one of my coworkers, everything from 607 and 1914, to disfellowshipping and being raised with the constant fear my worldly family would die in armageddon.

so he knows the whole witness thing.. anyway, he tells me this experience he had on tuesday:.

you wouldn't believe this, boc.

Cold Steel

My wife HATES religion...all religion and religious discussions. One time we were sitting at a restaurant and these two men were seated next to us speaking in a foreign language. My wife, who speaks the language, listened for awhile and told me that one of the men was a Jehovah's Witness and the other wasn't. The JW was complaining that there were no eligible women at his Kingdom Hall and his friend was trying to set him up with a friend of his, also not a JW. The friend was telling him how "hot" she was and the JW was non-commital and resisting. Then his friend said that if God wasn't going to send him a nice JW gal, then he was justified in dating someone outside of his religion. The interesting thing is the language was Farsi (Persian for you Bethelites), and the woman the guy was trying to fix his friend up with was a blonde.

12

What Does It Take to Be Disfellowshiped For Apostasy?

by Cold Steel in

if one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped?

does attitude have anything to do with it?

or persistance?

Cold Steel

If one meets privately with an elder and brings up some religious concerns havin to do with doctrine, does the person risk being disfellowshiped? Does attitude have anything to do with it? Or persistance? If a person is respectful when he approaches an elder or overseer, is it handled as an infraction or does the congregation authority answer with kindness and patience? At what point does the smile vanish and the lips get a bit tight? At what point is administrative action deemed necessary?

Has anyone here approached someone in authority expecting a compassionate answer and been met with threats instead? And if so, what usually happens when you take it to the next level? Also, I imagine if you backed off, things would be okay, but is there a point of no return where you've essentially sealed your own fate? Is a swift apology good enough to get one out of trouble for questioning something?

I also understand superstition is rife at Kingdom Halls. Can you imagine how much fun someone like Derren Brown could have in just one Sunday meeting?

3

What About the Resurrection? The JUST and the UNJUST?

by Cold Steel in

the scriptures speak about the resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

all will be resurrected.

paul teaches that although all will be resurrected, not all will be resurrected to the same glory.

Cold Steel

Badfish: The resurrection spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15 is a spiritual resurrection - not fleshly. It is talking about being raised as a spirit, not into a human body of flesh. That's why it says "It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one." So they wouldn't be resurrected into mortal fleshly human bodies that can die a physical death again. But if you die as a spirit, you must be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which means the Second Death (Revelation 20:14-15).

I agree that it’s a spiritual resurrection, but what exactly is that? Does it mean that people are resurrected as spirits? The scripture doesn’t say that. When Jesus appeared to the apostles, they at first thought he’d been resurrected as a spirit. But he was quick to explain to them that this was not the case. “Why do fears arise in your hearts,” he asked. “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and hones as ye see me have.”

To emphasize his point, Jesus suddenly asked, “Have ye any meat?” And they gave him a piece of broiled fish and honey comb, and Jesus ate it before them. Is it possible that Jesus was hungry after three days in the tomb? That seems rather unlikely; instead, it appeared to be a teaching device.

Paul later writes, “ Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be [in the resurrection]: but we know that, when [Christ] shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. ”

In short, according to the scriptures, our resurrection will be like Christ’s; yet it will be a spiritual resurrection. So knowing it also will be a physical resurrection, how can it be both physical and spiritual? And how did Jesus go through the walls and ceilings of the building? The Jehovah's Witnesses have used that as evidence that Jesus was indeed a spirit. How else could he have passed through solid walls unless he was a spirit? That argument today is completely specious as it was when it was conceived. What we know today of quantum physics, wormholes, interdimensional travel, particles that can coexist in different dimensions and much more. Jesus, having all power and authority from the Father, could easily go through walls and ceilings.

So what is spiritual resurrection? Again, a man, having separated from the flesh through death, becomes a spirit...a being that is limited in what it can do and experience. Then, in the resurrection, that spirit is reunited with the flesh and becomes greatly empowered. But instead of having a corruptible body of flesh and blood, we become perfected beings of immortal flesh, bone and spirit. That is why Jesus said, “A spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see I have.” Thus we see that Jesus was perfect in his being. He was not a spirit as he was previously when he was Yahweh in the generations before his birth. He was now in the “express image” of his Father and like him in every way.

The term “spiritual resurrection” was an almost irreconcilable issue with the early church fathers. Tertullian acknowledged Christ’s physical body, but was puzzled by the reference to a spiritual resurrection. It was, perhaps, the Spirit of God that animated Christ’s physical body. Whereas they saw the complexities in the issue, the Jehovah's Witnesses rushed in and immediately jumped to the dubious conclusion that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, manufactured a physical body to deceive the apostles into thinking he wasn’t a spirit, then spent forty days with them as a physical being.

In fact, though, Jesus became a dual nature, being a perfected man of flesh and bone, and spirit. Thus, he would remain forever. That’s why his body was missing from the tomb. It had been restored to him in a glorified condition. And, we’re told, our resurrection can be like Christ’s.

17

Does God's word apply to God?

by mauiboy in

the tv news about syria is truly disgusting, and it is only the tip of a much bigger situation that has been going on for milleniums.

:"mans inhumanity to man".

but i can't get the scripture at james 4:17 out of my mind.

Cold Steel

Ah, Nathan, how do you know God doesn't have feet? Jesus had feet, and is said to be in the "express image" of the Father. Also, that man is in the image of God. The big question is, why would God have, or need, feet, hands, arms, hands, eyes and so forth?

All those who have purported to have seen God say He is, in form, like a man.

Fascinating, eh?

17

Does God's word apply to God?

by mauiboy in

the tv news about syria is truly disgusting, and it is only the tip of a much bigger situation that has been going on for milleniums.

:"mans inhumanity to man".

but i can't get the scripture at james 4:17 out of my mind.

Cold Steel

Mauiboy: “Therefore, if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.” Unless Jehovah God has a second set of rules for us and him, how can this not be corrected by Him? Or is he letting his own word condemn him?

Actually, you’re quite correct. God and man are governed by different sets of laws. Man is under divine obligation to do good and right. God also does what is good and right, but He has an obligation to allow man his free agency, with only limited interference from Him.

When the wicked slay the wicked, God is under no obligation to prevent it. But when man fails to prevent it, the sin lies at his door. The purpose of this life is for man to be tried and tested. Nothing that happens, no matter how horrible, is of any lasting hurt...only what we do to ourselves. When people perish, whether it’s in the waves of the sea, or whether they fall from the air or are killed by maniacal tyrants or filthy degenerates, there are no lives that blink out of existence, even for a fraction of a second. Both people and animals simply change environments. That’s why the Lord said to not fear those who have the power to kill, but rather, him who can destroy both body and soul. In some situations, God has preserved the lives of his servants and others. In other situations, He allows atrocities to be committed so as to allow the free agency of mortals to play out to their condemnation. For, as the scriptures state, a murderer hath not eternal life abiding in him.

So the Lord, to an extent, must let things play out. If He prevented our mistakes and sins, and stopped our wars and atrocities, He would actually be violating His own edicts. Noah and his family came through the great flood, but within three generations, his offspring had refused to spread out over the face of the land and, under the leadership of his great grandson, Nimrod, his descendants had slipped back into the degradation of the pre-flood conditions. Thus, instead of destroying them, the Lord confounded their languages.

So man, for better or for worse, is the steward of this world under the protecting hand of God. If man becomes the product of greed and corruption and seeks for power and gain, he listens to the voice of Satan and his angels. But his is the choice between good and evil. Atheism wasn’t an issue with Nimrod and the other offspring of Noah. The knew God lived and bitterly resented His destruction of their fathers through the flood. His tower was his symbol of rebellion and resentment.

Finally, God allows Satan to tempt man and to foster rebellion. The constant presence of evil and good are necessary so that man can make a choice. For God to abrogate that choice and nullify man’s free agency would destroy His entire plan.

14

The Fullfillment of Prophecy about the last days in The 1st Centruy

by cassuk11 in

the last days were about the destruction of jerusalem and the temple in the 1st centruy.

the messiah was talking to those who asked the question , he replied tot hem and did not lie or mislead.he told them not us that soem would still be alive when he returned.

they fully expected it andwere waiting.he did not lie .he cmae back for his chosen ones and took them back where they serve in the kingdom .most of the apocolyptic language used were symbolic metephors randt akenform the old testamant.

Cold Steel

The only problem is that we can't fully trust the ancient manuscripts we have since none are original. It’s entirely likely that some later scribe manipulated the Savior’s words in the hopes that the Second Coming would be in his day or, at the least, earlier.

If one accepts these prophecies, then it’s clear these prophesies failed, right? Zechariah 12-14 describes the events, not of the Roman assault, but of a future assault during which God would bolster Israel, and the Messiah would rescue the Jews in the day of their redemption. According to prophecy, a number of things had to happen. First, the Jews would be scattered throughout the nations of the earth. Then, wolves in lambs’ clothing would enter the church, not sparing the flock. This would be followed by a “falling away” or mass apostasy. Centuries passed, the keys of the kingdom, or administerial authority, would pass away. The coming of Elijah, who would “restore all things,” was destined to occur, and then the gathering of Judah spoken about in Isaiah 11 would come to pass, followed by the building of the third temple (See Rev. 14). Once established, a great power from the north would come down on the holy city and the Lord would raise up two prophets. Three and a half years later, the Lord comes in his glory and rescues the remnant Jews and destroys Judah’s enemies, leaving only a sixth of the enemy intact.

At that point he descends upon the Mount of Olives, and an earthquake tears a rift into the mount, splitting it asunder. The remnant of the Jews flee into the valley and the Messiah reveals himself, converting the Jewish state in a single day. That’s a lot to happen in one’s lifetime; that’s why I dismiss any prophecies that seem to push the event in the Lord’s generation.